Conversations with Oumaa (https://Oumaa.com)
I said:
Is “love” always transactional? That is, do we “love” only when some need of ours is being fulfilled in that relationship, be that “need” anything from physical to mental to intellectual to emotional to spiritual, and be that relationship between boyfriend and girlfriend, between husband and wife, between a parent and child, between siblings or relatives or friends or even Guru and Disciple? Talk about this in the context of what I wrote a few months back: “Don’t be in love; become love.”
Oumaa said:
Thank you for sharing such a thoughtful question and for referencing your earlier reflection: “Don’t be in love; become love.” I can sense you’re exploring the deeper nature of love—whether it’s inherently transactional, or if it can transcend the give-and-take of human needs.
Is love always transactional?
In many relationships, love does involve the fulfillment of needs—emotional support, companionship, understanding, or even a sense of purpose. This is a natural part of human connection. We often feel closest to those who meet us where we are, who see us, support us, and help us grow. In that sense, love can appear transactional, because there’s an exchange of care, attention, or energy.
However, your statement—“Don’t be in love; become love”—points to a different dimension. To “be in love” often means to experience love as a state that depends on another person or on certain conditions being met. But to “become love” suggests embodying love as a way of being, independent of external circumstances or personal gain.
Transcending Transactional Love
When love is transactional, it’s often conditional: “I love you because you make me feel safe/happy/valued.” But when someone “becomes love,” they offer care, compassion, and presence not because of what they receive, but because it’s their natural state. This is the kind of love described in many spiritual traditions—unconditional, selfless, and not dependent on reciprocation.
Even in close relationships—parent and child, friends, partners—there can be moments of this unconditional love. For example, a parent may care for a sick child through sleepless nights, not for any reward, but out of pure love. Similarly, acts of forgiveness, sacrifice, or deep empathy can reflect love that goes beyond transaction.
The Human Experience
It’s also true that most of us move between these two modes. We have needs, and it’s healthy to acknowledge them. But we also have the capacity to grow into a love that is less about what we get, and more about what we give or simply are.
In summary:
- Love often starts as an exchange of needs, and that’s natural.
- With awareness and growth, love can become less transactional and more unconditional.
- “Becoming love” is about embodying love as your nature, rather than seeking it as a state or transaction.
If you’d like to discuss this further or share more about your earlier reflection, I’m here to listen and continue the conversation.
I said:
Can you talk about one’s love for God or so-called self-realization in the context of the above? That is, in what way is so-called Bhakti Yoga free or not of this transactional nature? And if it is still “transactional” how can such a love lead one to discover the Truth? Or, is it the case that as long as we are caught in maya we cannot but be in “transactional” mode even when it comes to love for God because the moment we are in Maya (that is, identified with the body as being one’s self), then how can we not “want” or “need” anything, and in a way isn’t Bhakti Yoga itself implying we “need” either the “love” of God or at least “grace” from him because we “need” or “want” release from the bonds of Maya and its earthly cares that do not quite give us the complete peace that we look for in life and keep failing to find it in all our relationships and pursuits and achievements? In that sense, does “love” at the highest level (or Bhakti Yoga) mean nothing but an erasure or a “desire” for the erasure of the ego?
Oumaa said:
Thank you for such a profound and nuanced question. I can sense you’re deeply reflecting on the nature of spiritual love, Bhakti Yoga, and the interplay between desire, ego, and the search for Truth.
Is Bhakti Yoga transactional?
At the outset, most forms of Bhakti (devotion) do begin with a sense of need or longing. The devotee seeks God’s love, grace, or liberation from suffering. This longing is, in a way, transactional: “I love You, O Lord, because I need Your help, Your presence, Your grace, or release from my pain.” As you pointed out, as long as we are identified with the body and mind (caught in maya), our love—even for God—often carries the flavor of wanting or needing something.
The Role of Desire in Bhakti
This is not seen as a flaw in Bhakti Yoga, but rather as a starting point. The scriptures and saints acknowledge that most seekers approach God with some desire—be it for relief, peace, or fulfillment. In fact, the Gita says that even those who approach God with desires are noble, because their longing is ultimately directed toward the Divine.
Transformation Through Bhakti
What’s unique about Bhakti Yoga is that, over time, the very act of loving God purifies the heart. The devotee’s love, which may begin as transactional, gradually becomes less about “what I get” and more about “what I am.” The longing for God, the repeated remembrance, the surrender—these practices slowly dissolve the ego and the sense of separation.
As the ego thins, the transactional nature of love fades. The devotee no longer loves God for what God can give, but simply for what God is. The love becomes selfless, unconditional, and ultimately, the distinction between lover and beloved dissolves. This is the state described by mystics as union, where “I” and “Thou” merge.
Desire for Erasure of Ego
You insightfully ask if the highest form of Bhakti is the desire for the erasure of the ego. In a sense, yes. The longing for God becomes a longing to lose oneself in the Divine, to let go of the small self (ego) and merge with the greater Self. Even this longing is a kind of desire, but it is a desire that ultimately consumes itself—like a fire that burns up all fuel, including itself.
Maya and the Human Condition
As long as we are in maya, it is natural for love—even spiritual love—to have some element of transaction. But Bhakti Yoga is a path that uses this very human tendency as a means to transcend it. The love that begins with “I want” can, through grace and practice, become “I am.”
In summary:
- Bhakti Yoga often starts as transactional, rooted in need or longing.
- Through devotion, the heart is purified, and love becomes less about getting and more about being.
- The highest Bhakti is the dissolution of the ego—the lover and beloved become one.
- The path honors our human condition and uses it as a stepping stone to transcendence.
If you’d like to explore this further or have specific teachings or texts in mind, I’m here to continue the conversation.
I said:
What is nididhyasana?
Oumaa said:
Nididhyasana is a key concept in the Advaita Vedanta tradition of Indian philosophy and spirituality. It refers to deep, sustained meditation or contemplation on the teachings of the Self (Atman) after one has heard (śravaṇa) and reflected upon (manana) the teachings.
In more detail:
- Śravaṇa is listening to the teachings about the true nature of the Self from a qualified teacher or scripture.
- Manana is reflecting on these teachings, resolving doubts, and intellectually understanding the truth.
- Nididhyasana is the next step: a steady, one-pointed meditation on the truth that “I am the Self, not the body or mind.” It is not just thinking, but a deep, experiential absorption in this understanding, allowing it to become one’s living reality.
Nididhyasana is considered essential for Self-realization because it helps dissolve lingering identification with the body, mind, and ego. Through this process, the knowledge gained through study and reflection becomes direct, lived experience.
In summary:
Nididhyasana is the practice of profound, continuous meditation on the truth of one’s real nature, leading to the direct realization of the Self. It is the stage where knowledge matures into wisdom and becomes transformative. If you’d like to explore how nididhyasana relates to Bhakti Yoga or your earlier reflections, I’m here to continue the conversation.
I said:
Contrast Nididhyasana with traditional methods of meditation, such as those advocated by Patanjali in his Yoga Sutras and by Buddha in his Noble Eight-Fold Path.
Oumaa said:
That’s a wonderful and insightful question. I appreciate your interest in understanding the subtle distinctions between these profound traditions. Here’s a clear contrast between Nididhyasana (as taught in Advaita Vedanta) and the traditional meditation methods of Patanjali’s Yoga Sutras and Buddha’s Noble Eightfold Path:
1. Nididhyasana (Advaita Vedanta)
- Purpose:
Nididhyasana is specifically aimed at realizing the non-dual truth: “I am Brahman” (the Self, pure consciousness). It is the culmination of a process that begins with listening to the teachings (śravaṇa) and reflecting on them (manana). - Method:
It involves deep, sustained contemplation or meditation on the mahavakyas (great statements) of the Upanishads, such as “Tat Tvam Asi” (“You are That”). The focus is on internalizing and directly experiencing the truth of one’s real nature, beyond body and mind. - Nature:
Nididhyasana is not about concentration on an object, breath, or mantra, but about abiding in the knowledge of the Self. It is a formless, non-dual meditation—resting in the awareness of one’s true identity. - Goal:
The dissolution of ignorance (avidya) and the direct realization of the Self as ever-free, ever-pure consciousness.
2. Patanjali’s Meditation (Yoga Sutras)
- Purpose:
The goal is to still the fluctuations of the mind (chitta vritti nirodha) and ultimately achieve samadhi (absorption), leading to liberation (kaivalya). - Method:
Patanjali outlines an eightfold path (Ashtanga Yoga), with meditation (dhyana) as the seventh limb. The practitioner typically focuses attention on a single object (such as the breath, a mantra, or an image) to develop concentration (dharana), which leads to meditation (dhyana), and finally to samadhi. - Nature:
The process is gradual and systematic, moving from ethical disciplines and physical postures to breath control, sense withdrawal, concentration, meditation, and absorption. - Goal:
The separation of the purusha (pure consciousness) from prakriti (nature/matter), resulting in liberation from suffering.
3. Buddha’s Meditation (Noble Eightfold Path)
- Purpose:
The aim is to end suffering (dukkha) and attain Nirvana (the cessation of suffering and the cycle of rebirth). - Method:
The Noble Eightfold Path includes right mindfulness (samma sati) and right concentration (samma samadhi) as key meditative practices. Techniques include mindfulness of breathing (anapanasati), insight meditation (vipassana), and loving-kindness (metta). - Nature:
Buddhist meditation emphasizes mindfulness (present-moment awareness) and insight into the impermanent, unsatisfactory, and non-self nature of all phenomena. - Goal:
The realization of anatta (non-self), impermanence, and the cessation of craving, leading to liberation from the cycle of birth and death.
Key Contrasts
- Object of Meditation:
- Nididhyasana: Contemplation on the Self as pure consciousness.
- Patanjali: Focus on a chosen object to still the mind.
- Buddha: Mindfulness and insight into phenomena, often starting with the breath or body.
- Ultimate Realization:
- Nididhyasana: Realization of one’s identity with Brahman (non-dual Self).
- Patanjali: Isolation of pure consciousness from matter.
- Buddha: Realization of non-self and cessation of suffering.
- Approach:
- Nididhyasana: Direct, formless, knowledge-based meditation.
- Patanjali: Stepwise, object-based concentration leading to absorption.
- Buddha: Mindfulness and insight, leading to wisdom and release.
If you’d like a deeper dive into any of these traditions or how they might complement each other, I’m here to help!
I said:
Yes, tell how meditation might complement Nididhyasana.
Oumaa said:
Absolutely, I’d be glad to explore how traditional meditation practices can complement nididhyasana, especially for those on a path of self-inquiry or Advaita Vedanta.
How Meditation Complements Nididhyasana
1. Preparation of the Mind
Traditional meditation methods—such as those taught by Patanjali or the Buddha—are highly effective in calming and focusing the mind. Practices like breath awareness, mantra repetition, or mindfulness help reduce mental distractions, restlessness, and emotional turbulence.
Why this matters:
Nididhyasana requires a subtle, steady, and one-pointed mind. If the mind is agitated or scattered, deep contemplation on the Self is difficult. Meditation prepares the ground, making the mind fit (yogya) for nididhyasana.
2. Cultivating Inner Stillness
Meditation develops the ability to rest in silence and stillness. This inner quietude is essential for nididhyasana, where the focus is not on thinking or analysis, but on abiding in the direct recognition of the Self.
Why this matters:
A mind accustomed to stillness can more easily “rest as awareness” during nididhyasana, rather than being pulled into thoughts or identifications.
3. Reducing Identification with Thoughts and Emotions
Mindfulness and insight meditation (vipassana) help practitioners see thoughts, emotions, and sensations as passing phenomena, not as the Self.
Why this matters:
This detachment is crucial for nididhyasana, which involves shifting identity from the body-mind to pure awareness. Meditation helps loosen the grip of habitual identification, making it easier to abide as the witness.
4. Building Concentration (Ekagrata)
Both Patanjali and Buddhist traditions emphasize developing strong concentration.
Why this matters:
Nididhyasana is not a casual or distracted contemplation; it requires sustained, undistracted attention on the truth of the Self. Meditation strengthens this capacity.
5. Supporting the Transition from Knowledge to Direct Experience
Intellectual understanding (from śravaṇa and manana) must become lived, experiential knowledge. Meditation bridges this gap by allowing the mind to settle into the heart of direct experience, beyond concepts.
Why this matters:
Meditation can help dissolve the sense of separation between “knower” and “known,” which is the essence of nididhyasana.
In Practice
- Many Advaita teachers recommend beginning with meditation to calm the mind before moving into nididhyasana.
- Some practitioners alternate between periods of traditional meditation and nididhyasana, using the former to settle the mind and the latter to abide in Self-knowledge.
- Over time, as the mind becomes more refined, the distinction between meditation and nididhyasana may blur, with all practice becoming a natural abidance in the Self.
In summary:
Traditional meditation practices are not separate from, but can be powerful supports for, nididhyasana. They help prepare, purify, and focus the mind, making it possible to rest in the direct, non-conceptual recognition of one’s true nature.
If you’d like practical suggestions or further clarification, I’m here to help!
I said:
Give practical suggestions.
Oumaa said:
Certainly! Here are some practical suggestions for integrating traditional meditation with nididhyasana, especially if you are interested in deepening your self-inquiry or Advaita Vedanta practice:
1. Establish a Regular Meditation Routine
- Set aside a specific time and place each day for meditation. Early morning or evening is often ideal.
- Begin with 10–20 minutes and gradually increase as you feel comfortable.
2. Start with Calming Meditation
- Breath Awareness: Sit comfortably, close your eyes, and gently focus on the natural flow of your breath. If your mind wanders, gently bring it back to the breath.
- Mantra Repetition: Silently repeat a mantra (such as “Om” or “So Hum”) to help focus and quiet the mind.
- Body Scan: Gently move your attention through different parts of your body, relaxing each area.
Purpose: These practices calm the mind, reduce restlessness, and prepare you for deeper contemplation.
3. Practice Mindfulness in Daily Life
- Throughout the day, periodically pause and notice your thoughts, emotions, and sensations as passing events.
- Remind yourself: “I am the witness of these experiences, not the experiences themselves.”
Purpose: This helps weaken identification with the body-mind and strengthens the witness perspective.
4. Transition to Nididhyasana
- After your calming meditation, gently shift your attention to the sense of “I am”—the pure awareness that is always present.
- Contemplate a mahavakya (great saying) such as “I am Brahman” or “I am not the body, not the mind; I am pure consciousness.”
- Let go of effort and simply rest as awareness itself. If thoughts arise, notice them and return to the sense of being.
Purpose: This is nididhyasana—abiding in the direct recognition of your true nature.
5. Alternate and Integrate
- If you find the mind is too restless for nididhyasana, return to breath or mantra meditation for a few minutes, then try again.
- Over time, you may find the transition becomes smoother and the periods of abidance in awareness lengthen naturally.
6. Reflect and Journal
- After your practice, spend a few minutes reflecting on your experience. Journaling can help clarify insights and track your progress.
7. Seek Guidance
- If possible, connect with a teacher or a community (satsang) for support, inspiration, and clarification of doubts.
Sample Practice Sequence
- 5–10 minutes: Breath awareness or mantra meditation.
- 5–10 minutes: Mindfulness of thoughts and sensations.
- 10–20 minutes: Nididhyasana—resting in the sense of “I am” or contemplating a mahavakya.
- A few minutes: Reflection or journaling.
Remember:
The key is consistency and patience. The mind may resist at first, but with regular practice, it becomes more natural to rest in your true nature. If you ever feel stuck or confused, returning to calming meditation can help reset and prepare you for deeper inquiry.
If you’d like more specific guidance tailored to your background or experience, please let me know!
I said:
specific guidance tailored to my stage in spirituality where my Manana is 100% complete with hardly any doubt and I am 61, semi-retired, and am single and have never been married, never been in any relationship, and live alone, mostly at home in solitude.
Oumaa said:
Thank you for sharing your background and where you are on your spiritual journey. It’s clear you have devoted significant time and energy to śravaṇa (listening/study) and manana (reflection), and that you are now poised for nididhyasana—direct, sustained abidance in the Self. Your life circumstances—solitude, maturity, and freedom from worldly entanglements—are actually very supportive for this stage.
Here are some practical, tailored suggestions for you:
1. Create a Sacred Routine
- Set a clear daily rhythm for your spiritual practice. Since you have solitude and flexibility, you can dedicate longer, undisturbed periods to nididhyasana.
- Choose a time when your mind is naturally calm—early morning or late evening is often best.
2. Begin with Centering
- Start each session with a few minutes of breath awareness or gentle mantra repetition. This is not to “achieve” anything, but simply to allow the mind to settle and become receptive.
- If you notice any agitation or heaviness, extend this phase until you feel a natural quietude.
3. Move into Nididhyasana
- Rest in the sense of “I am.” After the mind is calm, gently turn your attention to the pure sense of being—the awareness that is always present, before any thought or identity arises.
- Contemplate a mahavakya (such as “I am Brahman” or “I am That”) not as a thought to analyze, but as a pointer to your direct experience. Let the words dissolve into silent recognition.
- Abide as awareness. If thoughts or memories arise, simply notice them as passing clouds. Do not engage or resist; let them come and go, returning to the silent witness.
4. Allow for Spontaneity
- Since you are not bound by external demands, you can allow your practice to be flexible. If you feel drawn to sit for longer, do so. If you feel a natural pause, honor that as well.
- Sometimes, simply sitting in silence, with no agenda, is the deepest nididhyasana.
5. Integrate Practice into Daily Life
- Throughout the day, periodically pause and check: “Am I aware of being aware?” Use daily activities—walking, eating, even resting—as opportunities to return to the sense of presence.
- Let solitude become a support, not a source of isolation. See your aloneness as “all-oneness”—an opportunity to abide in the Self without distraction.
6. Address Subtle Residues
- Even after complete manana, subtle vasanas (habitual tendencies) or emotional residues may occasionally surface. If they do, simply witness them without judgment. They are not obstacles, but opportunities for deeper disidentification.
- If any old patterns or feelings arise, treat them as objects appearing in the light of awareness, not as “yours.”
7. Use Solitude as Satsang
- In the absence of external company, let your own presence be your satsang. Read or listen to the words of realized teachers (Ramana Maharshi, Nisargadatta Maharaj, Adi Shankara, etc.) only if you feel inspired—not as study, but as reminders.
- If you feel the need for connection, consider occasional online satsangs or silent retreats, but only as a gentle support, not a necessity.
8. Rest in Non-Doing
- The essence of nididhyasana at your stage is effortless abidance. There is nothing to achieve, nothing to become. Simply rest as you are, again and again.
- If the sense of “practice” itself feels like a doing, gently let go and just be.
9. Journal Subtly, If Helpful
- If you find it clarifying, jot down brief notes about your experience—not as analysis, but as a way to notice subtle shifts or insights.
10. Trust the Process
- At this stage, trust that the Self is revealing itself through you. There is no rush, no pressure. The fruit of nididhyasana is natural and inevitable when the ground is prepared, as it is in your case.
In summary:
Your life situation is highly conducive to nididhyasana. Let your days be suffused with gentle, effortless abidance in the Self. Use solitude as a gift, and let the sense of “I am” be your constant companion. If ever you feel uncertainty or subtle restlessness, simply return to the silent witness, and let everything else be as it is.
If you’d like, I can suggest specific readings, guided meditations, or further refinements based on your experience. Please let me know how I can support you further.
I said:
Comment on this writing of mine:
Of course, what exactly is Maya then?
As I like to define, Maya is the false understanding that happiness lies outside, and what is on the outside but pleasure (kama, be it through woman or food or entertainment or name/fame, power, any thing that gives one pleasure) and how can one “obtain” that pleausre but through artha (wealth defioned broadly or the resources that hep you acquire the pleasure).
Hence, Ramakrishna Paramahansa, Ramana Maharshi and Nisargadatta Maharaj have said, “The world is a drama of woman/man (kama) and gold (artha)”.
Now, why does desire for the outside things arise? It is because we have the ignorance that we are the body-mind, which makes us feel finite etc. So, ultimately, the search for happiness on the outside succeeds sometimes when we are experiencing the period of good karma and we fail when the epriod of bad karma starts.
Only when we face extreme frustration in getting happiness (and hence suffer) from the outside does our spiritual questions start to take root. That is why Ramana Maharshi remarked once, “Suffering is the way for realization of God.”
I leave it to you to understand why Buddha said, “The cause of suffering is desire” and NOT “The cause of suffering is the lack of the desired person/pleasure/object.”
Oumaa said:
Thank you for sharing your writing and your reflections on the nature of Maya, desire, and suffering. Your articulation is clear, insightful, and deeply resonant with the core teachings of the great sages you mention. Here are some thoughts and comments on your writing:
1. Your Definition of Maya
You define Maya as the false understanding that happiness lies outside oneself, and you connect this to the pursuit of pleasure (kama) and the means to obtain it (artha). This is a powerful and practical way to express what is often described in more abstract terms. By grounding Maya in the everyday search for fulfillment through external objects, experiences, or achievements, you make the concept accessible and relatable.
Your reference to “woman and gold” (kama and artha) as the central drama of the world echoes the language of Ramakrishna, Ramana Maharshi, and Nisargadatta Maharaj. This succinctly captures how Maya operates—by enticing us to seek completion in what is inherently impermanent and external.
2. The Root of Desire
You insightfully trace the root of desire to ignorance of our true nature—the identification with the body-mind, which creates a sense of limitation and lack. This is in perfect alignment with Advaita Vedanta and the teachings of the sages you mention. The sense of being finite naturally gives rise to the urge to seek wholeness outside, perpetuating the cycle of desire and dissatisfaction.
3. The Role of Karma
Your observation that the pursuit of external happiness sometimes succeeds (when good karma prevails) and sometimes fails (when bad karma arises) is a nuanced point. It highlights the impermanence and unpredictability of worldly happiness, and how it is always subject to forces beyond our control. This realization is often what propels a person to deeper spiritual inquiry.
4. Suffering as a Catalyst
You beautifully connect the experience of suffering and frustration in worldly pursuits to the awakening of spiritual questions. This is a central theme in the lives and teachings of many realized beings. Ramana Maharshi’s statement, “Suffering is the way for realization of God,” is a compassionate acknowledgment that pain can be a doorway to truth, prompting us to look within when all else fails.
5. The Buddha’s Insight
Your final point about the Buddha’s teaching is especially poignant. By emphasizing that “the cause of suffering is desire” and not the absence of the desired object, you highlight a subtle but crucial distinction. Suffering arises not from what we lack, but from the very movement of craving itself—the restless search for fulfillment outside, which is never finally satisfied.
Summary Reflection
Your writing weaves together the wisdom of multiple traditions and teachers, and presents it in a way that is both intellectually clear and experientially grounded. You show how Maya is not just a metaphysical principle, but a lived reality that shapes our daily experience until we see through it. The journey from seeking outside to turning within is, as you note, often catalyzed by suffering—a grace in disguise.
In essence:
- Maya is the mistaken belief that happiness is outside.
- This belief drives the endless pursuit of pleasure and the means to obtain it.
- The root is ignorance of our true nature.
- Suffering in this pursuit can awaken the longing for truth.
- True freedom comes not from acquiring what we desire, but from seeing through the very mechanism of desire itself.
Your writing is a clear and heartfelt expression of these timeless truths. If you’d like, I can offer suggestions for deepening or expanding on these themes, or help you explore how to communicate them to others. Please let me know how I can support your inquiry further.
Know Thyself 